Paw Paw, Bill Joe and Waddell Discuss Whuppins, Shine and Life Lessons
Join Host Michael Waddell as he sits down with his father, James Edwin "Paw Paw" Waddell (73) and longtime family friend and mentor Bill Joe "Sammy" Ellison (78) for an inspiring stroll down memory lane. Overcoming a hardscrabble childhood and building a better life through determination, hard work and personal accountability are central themes to this lively conversation between lifelong friends who grew up during difficult times in the rural South. Both Paw Paw and Bill Joe are self-made men with long, hard-earned careers in construction, Paw Paw as a skilled carpenter and homebuilder and Bill Joe as an admired brick and stone mason, and they are our very special guests on The Michael Waddell Podcast, presented by Spandau Arms and in partnership with Folds of Honor, Cigars International and Poncho Outdoors. Learning a skill, working with your hands, and taking pride in the finished product used to be core American values, but it seems that somewhere along the line the tenets of a hard day's work and the value of making an honest living were lost. However, today many folks are rediscovering the value of skilled trades – good paying jobs that are in demand and, for most, surprisingly satisfying. "We did work hard," said Bill Joe, "but we always had fun and were laughing all day long." These two family men still work very hard, so much so that Waddell raises his eyebrows –and gets a little worried – when they join him for chores at Downton Dixie.
In this emotionally rich podcast, Waddell gets to the heart of the matter, with a line of respectful but revealing questions that point to sometimes hard truths about life, making a way for yourself and the discipline and sacrifice that accompany responsibility. The two men Waddell admires most – the guys who taught him about soda crackers and hoop cheese, Vienna sausage and potted meat – his daddy and his 'black daddy,' Bill Joe, both had hard upbringings and entered the workforce as teens because of need, family circumstances and a burning desire to improve themselves and their situation.
The Michael Waddell Podcast is produced by Outdoor Sportsman Group and is available widely on Outdoor Channel YouTube, MyOutdoorTV, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and OutdoorChannel.com, to name a few.
For a short period after his mom and dad divorced in 1962, Paw Paw's family moved to California (where his mother's family lived) but eventually they returned to the South and sharecropped a small farm in Alabama. By that time, Paw Paw had a step-daddy who was a mean-spirited man. "One night at the supper table down at the old sharecropper's house," Paw Paw began, 'I said 'No' to my Momma instead of 'No, Ma'am,' and he corrected me… it was my night to go to the dairy barn [early in the morning], and it was cold, so I had two pair of pants on. You didn't wear your best shoes up there either, because you were gonna get in a mess coming back. Anyway, I got all the cows in, got 'em fed down, and he says, 'Hey, boy!" He called me into the milk room. He said, 'Do you remember last night at the supper table when you said 'No' to your Momma instead of 'No Ma'am?' I said, 'Yes, Sir.' He said, 'Well, you need to be taught a lesson.' Look, he beat me… he pulled his belt off and he was whupping me so hard, the ceiling wasn't but 7' in that milk room, and he was whupping me so hard he busted a flood light out of the ceiling. …I had two pair of pants on, so it hurt my feelings more than anything. I got back down to the house that morning and walked in the back porch to take my shoes off, and the other kids were getting ready with my Momma and my sister, the oldest, and I kind of broke down. It hurt my feelings and pride more than it did me." It was years later that Paw Paw learned his Momma and older sister had stood up for him and had been mistreated by his step-dad as well.
"After all was said and done," continued Paw Paw, "I got behind in school because Momma wanted better for us kids and moved us around several times… I told Sammy [Bill Joe], this is my education right here [holding up his hand] – and his too [pointing to Bill Joe] – but it taught me a lesson, if anything, about how to treat kids, because I didn't get treated right by my step-parent and never had stuff growing up that most kids have, and I tell folks – I know you've heard this [speaking directly to Michael Waddell] – I lived my childhood through you, my kid. I made sure he had the stuff that I never had."
"But," continued Paw Paw, "we always say, 'Don't make excuses about where you come from.' We know where we come from. We were just talking earlier about all the famous people who have a lot of money, but you know, they're no richer in heart than me and Sammy," Paw Paw concluded.
"I have never got a whuppin' I didn't own," said Bill Joe with a wry smile on his face. "Oh, man I did. But I had got so many whuppins that my brothers would do something and my dear Momma would say, 'Who did this?' and I'd tell her I did, because I got immune to them. It didn't even hurt no more. Momma would say, 'You ain't gonna cry?' My Momma had those big arms. She'd hit you, and then she'd stop and talk to you. I found out when I got grown what she was doing – she stopped [because] she was resting! And then she'd take some alchohol and put it on the welts and she'd say, 'If I didn't love you, I wouldn't do this.' I said, 'Momma, if you hated me, you'd kill me...' She kept all of us out of jail. My Dad didn't whup me that regular, but now he had a good mind; I might get six whuppins at one time, because he'd say, 'You remember when Momma told you to do this?' He'd save up. He'd get me for old and new whuppins," said Bill Joe, with a chuckle.
"When I come up," started Bill Joe, "I always had something to do. If I was staying at my grandparents or eating at home, you'd get off the school bus, take your good shoes off, put your raggedy shoes on, and get in the field. I've been working ever since I was 11 years old…"
"I used to have to go down and feed the hogs," continued Bill Joe, "work in the garden, [and then] a guy named Fats Domino sang a song, I'm Gonna Be A Wheel Someday. …When I turned about 16½ years old – I wanted to leave home before then – but Mom said, 'I'll have you put in farm school because you can't leave until you get 16,' and I said, 'Thank you for the information,' and when I turned about 16½, out that door I went. I lived with some people; they were nice. I paid some rent to them, and I cooked and cleaned. I'd been cooking since I was 9."
Both Paw Paw and Bill Joe left home early and met up as laborers on a construction crew. "I've always said, 'If hard work would kill you, I'd been dead long ago,'" said Paw Paw.
"When we started, we both were 'helpers,' what I called 'go-getters,' said Bill Joe, "and that's how we met…I love construction because you can take breaks when you get ready, and when it rains the Good Lord gives you a day off and you don't need a doctor's excuse. I wouldn't work inside a plant for nothing. I couldn't do it."
When asked about racism in those days, Bill Joe noted that he didn't really experience it until he left home because poor country folks – whether black or white – seemed to spend more time together and help one another. "I didn't know anything about racism, black people go in that door and white people go in that door. I said, 'Hell, I've been going through white folks' doors all my life.' I didn't see any sense in it. There used to be a little juke joint there, and we had to go in the backside. But we had so much fun back there, the white people came from up front to be back there with us. We were back there dancin' and jammin' baby!"
"When I went to work in Columbus on the construction crew" Paw Paw added, "a guy named Albert Hines, I think he was retired military, but he was a crew leader and I worked on his crew. That black guy taught me how to cut step treads, we worked side to side out there in the hot sun on those concrete slabs, and he taught me how to cut rafters. He taught me more things I know about carpentry than any person, other than my learning as I went. But that black man named Albert Hines – he's probably gone now – but I give him credit. He took his time and worked with me. It wasn't but a few years that I worked with him that he moved up to job superintendent, and I went to crew leader. I didn't have an education, but he taught me how to read blueprints, how to scale and do all this stuff… I couldn't read or write, but I'd have a roll of plans, and I was only about 18 or 19 years old, and I could lay everything out and come back and frame it, and the older guys were mad at me because I knew more than they did, but Albert taught me."
When asked what advice they'd like to give folks, Paw Paw said, "I'm a firm believer in work ethic…Teach them [children] how to work."
"Everybody has a talent," added Bill Joe. "Sit down and think about what you could be good at, and go to trade school or get with somebody to learn it. …Get off the couch, put the phone down and learn something," said Bill Joe.
Reflecting on their hard lives, Bill Joe said, "I enjoyed the way I came up. It made me good."
"I agree," Paw Paw added. "My raising made me who I am. I learned by the wrong doings to do the right doings," said Paw Paw.
"I've had some incredible guests on the podcast," said Waddell, "but I think this was the most exciting one for me. When I was 16, my Momma passed away, and it seemed like everybody loved Momma, but I remember, it's etched in my mind, Bill Joe being a pallbearer toting my Momma.…I get choked up thinking about it. I think about all the crazy division, all the crazy stuff you hear. That's one reason this story is so important. This is what made me. I didn't have it as hard as Paw Paw and Bill Joe – the toughest I had it was having to work with them, but I am so thankful for their example, and I think their stories of overcoming hardship and enduring friendship will resonate with a lot of folks."
The Michael Waddell Podcast releases new episodes every other week.
Waddell's story began in the backwoods of Booger Bottom, Georgia, where he grew up surrounded by nature, family and a love for the outdoors. A self-proclaimed "rowdy redneck," his passion for hunting and storytelling led him to win a Realtree turkey-calling contest, which launched his career in the outdoor industry. From guiding and filming hunts to creating hit shows like Realtree Road Trips and Bone Collector, Waddell has become a beloved figure in the outdoor world.
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